Hunley Newsletter #40 CREWMAN #8

NOTE: I interviewed Dave Harvey on 8/18/03 and found him to be energetic and honest with a mission in mind and that mission is too honor the Confederate Submarine H L Hunley and her final crew. We both concurred that his naming of "Patrick White" as the eighth crewman is justified and there are no records locally of either James Hayes or anyone named Miller. He stated that his research was thorough and was only meant to assist the extremely busy staff of the Friends of the Hunley, Inc. We both concur that the "Final Burial" is going to be an explosion in Charleston like none other and that the "Friends" have underestimated the size of this event. That the event could turn tragic if not handled properly is a concern that we share. Mr. Harvey and his friends and staff are putting together some amazing events that will honor not only the "final Crew" but the living relatives as well. George W. Penington

WHO'S REALLY BEING BURIED AT THE LAST CONFEDERATE BURIAL? By Dave Harvey

Who is really being buried at the "last Confederate Funeral?" That is a great question, and one that The Heritage Motorcycle Rally Committee in Charleston is attempting to help solve. You see, the last official burial of the Civil war is being held on the 17th of April 2004 during the second annual Heritage Motorcycle Rally in Charleston, SC. The remains of these eight brave Confederate sailors are being buried in a ceremony that could very well match the burial of John F. Kennedy. The mood will be somber as the eight white horse drawn carriages, each with a casket aboard, lead a four-mile procession down some of the oldest and most beautiful streets in America. As many as 35, 000 re-enactors, and God only knows how many other people, are going to make the walk with them to a final resting place at Magnolia Cemetery. Magnolia is one of the oldest and most prestigious cemeteries in the South, with 5 of the Confederate Generals and thousands of their men buried along side some of the leading forefathers of the American Revolution. Lt. Dixon and his crew will be placed next to the remains of Horace L. Hunley, (one of three Captains and namesake of the history-making submarine) and the twelve other sailors who perished when CSS Hunley sank first in August of 1863 and then sunk again in October of the same year. Here lies the problem...we still do not know all the names of these heroes. Who is the eighth person? Just who are we burying on April 17, 2004? Is it White, Miller, or Hayes? These are a few of the names listed as the eighth sailor. For 140 years history has eluded the answer.

Some months ago, the Heritage Motorcycle Rally Committee set out on a mission to locate any living descendants of the third crew of the Hunley. We were looking for one that rode a motorcycle. But this search has altered when it became apparent to us that there were discrepancies as to the identities of some of the crew. And no one knows the identity of the eighth person on board the submarine.. Our search began with referencing printed material both on the Internet and in text, then on to our own Charleston County Library for research in the "South Carolina Room". We branched out further into some churches on Sullivan's Island outside of Charleston. Our task had us travel to the National Archives in Washington, D.C. to spend countless hours pouring over records on microfilm and original documents. And we aren't done yet.

But the long hours, not to mention crossed eyeballs, paid off. Armed with lots of Charleston info, some names of people, ships and the date of the second sinking (October 15th, 1863) and with Dave Harvey (Coordinator of the Heritage Motorcycle Rally and former US Navy Submarine Chief Torpedo man) knowing that all ships had to be assigned to a land location and support group somewhere, we searched other records in the Charleston Area. Looking for a clue as to who was available in the Charleston area to fill the places of the sailors who perished. There had to be a Miller, Hayes or White somewhere! BINGO! We found the pay record for Charleston Naval Station for the third Quarter, July 1st - October 31st, 1863. On this record are four of the known right names listed as crew on the Hunley; Boatswain's Mate James A Wicks, Joseph Ridgeway, Seaman Frank G. Collins, and C. Simpkins. The only known sailor missing from that pay record was Arnold Becker. Commander of the Hunley, Lt. Dixon and Corporal Carlson, who were in the Army, would not have been listed or paid by Charleston Naval Station. One name out of al the sailors listed on this pay record jumped out at us - Seaman Patrick White. Wait a minute....did we just find a Seaman...with the last name of White...being paid by Charleston Naval Station the last Quarter of 1863? And wasn't the name White one of the names listed as possibly the eighth sailor?

Here's where it gets really exciting! It has been written that Arnold Becker transferred from the CSS Chicora, to the Indian Chief and then volunteered for CSS Hunley. We took that information, looked a step further and we found "Seaman Patrick White" listed on a Muster Roll from the CSS Chicora. Now a connection has been uncovered! Were White and Becker friends? They appear to have been shipmates. With further investigating we found that Lt. Dixon went to Commodore Tucker for his men on the Hunley. And then we found that Tucker was the commanding officer of the CSS Chicora before becoming the Commander of Charleston Naval Station. The connection between the Hunley, Becker, White just got bigger. We believe that Seaman Patrick White may very well be the eighth sailor. We have gladly passed these findings over the Friends of the Hunley, and the Genealogist to help them in their search for the living descendants.

Our endeavor has been fascinating. We look forward to our return to the National Archives in our search for more "pieces of the puzzle." Our next trip to DC is scheduled for August. We have found four living descendants so far, and they will be in Charleston for the burial. As for the motorcycle riding one. We will keep that one a secret.......

The sailors who volunteered for service aboard the CSS Hunley, did so with the thought in the back of their minds that they may lose their lives just as the thirteen before then., But they proudly went anyway. As we hop on a bike for a leisurely Sunday ride, don't we have the same thing in the back of our minds? How many friends have we buried that ride. Yet we proudly go anyway.

The burial of the final crew of the H. L. Hunley is scheduled for Saturday, April 17th, 2004 starting at 10:00 a.m. at White Point Gardens, followed by a funeral procession and ending at Magnolia Cemetery for the burial.
Tours of the Hunley will NOT be available the day of the Burial, but during the week of the Burial will have special extended hours on Monday April 12 through Friday April 16 and will be open as normal on Sunday April 18. Tickets are now available for these special tours.

Tours of the Hunley are normally open for public tours every Saturday from 10 - 5 and Sunday from 12 - 5 and will have those hours before the week of the Burial and all weeks following the Burial. To order tickets, go to www.etix.com or call 1.877.4HUNLEY (1.877.448.6539
The burial procession will be open to the public, other events and Lantern Walks will require tickets.
If you are interested in participating in the burial contact Kay Long at (843) 556-1805 or crsladyk@comcast.net.
All media inquiries should contact Kellen Correia at (843) 722-2333 ext. 32 or Kellen@rqasc.com.
Further details about the burial will be made available as the date gets closer and will be posted on the Official Website of Friends of the Hunley, www.hunley.org, or you can call Friends of the Hunley at (843) 722-2333.

The final burial date of April 17, 2004 falls during Charleston's 2nd Annual Heritage Motorcycle Rally, The Heritage Committee has been busy with plans to help pay last respects to the crew, as well as assist the Friends of the Hunley. Dave Harvey, Coordinator of the HeritageMotorcycleRally states that "those brave young men believed in defending their freedoms and rights, just as we do today".

Dave Harvey spent 20 years in the Navy on Submarines so these guys mean more to him than to most. So Dave directed the Heritage committee staff to set out and find one or more of the living descendants of the crewmembers. After tireless hours pouring over records on top of records, one was found. and then another, and another. All family members of James A. Wicks to be exact. And they along with their families are planning to attend thememorialservices and burial in April.

THE HERITAGE MOTORCYCLE RALLY COMMITTEE has planned a Benefit Poker Run on Saturday, September 20, 2003 to raise the funds to pay for the Hunley crew families members' hotel and some expenses while they are in Charleston.

3) Northern time differed from Southern time >

In the leap year February 17, 1864 the Confederate Submarine H. L. Hunley sank the enemy warship U.S.S. Housatonic in Charleston Harbor off the coast of Charleston, S.C. The reported sinking occurred about 8:45 - 9:00 PM according to Northern Naval commanders and witnesses. It would be interesting to know what time pieces were used and how Northern time differed from Southern time. Was there a twenty-six minute difference?

Apparent Solar Time

The Earth makes a complete rotation about its axis in 24 hours and hence, turns by 15 degrees every hour. By making a flat circular disk divided into sectors of 15 degrees and aligning the axis of the disk with the axis of Earth's rotation, one would be able to read the hour using the shadow of the vertical rod placed at the center of the disk. http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/timekeeping.php

CHARLESTON, S.C. -- Dixon's watch said it was 8:23 when the gold pocket watch belonging to the commander of the Confederate submarine H.L. Hunley stopped. Could that be about the time the sub sank a Union blockade ship off the South Carolina coast. Researchers said Thursday, August 7, 2003 that the time adjustment may make that about right.

But the time does nothing to certify the how and why the Confederate Submarine H L Hunley sank sometime on the night of Feb. 17, 1864.

There are four major questions about the time that Commander George E. Dixon's pocket watch stopped.

1.) Is the time shown ante meridian (AM) or post meridian (PM).

2.)Did the watch stop due to flooding water?

3.) Did the concussion from the explosion cause a shock that stopped the watch?

4.)Did the watch simply wind down?

It's not clear if the time on Lt. George Dixon's watch is morning or evening and whether it stopped because of water flooding the sub or because it simply wound down. (The watch may have kept ticking for 12 hours or even 24 hours after the attack. This does confirm the possibility that the crew didn't drown; instead, they may have suffered a slow and agonizing death by asphyxiation. Had the sub filled with water, the watch would most likely have stopped ticking almost immediately. We know from the scientific evidence that there was an air pocket inside the sub for years after it sank, as confirmed by the presence of stalactites.) http://www.thehunley.com/Dixon's%20watch%20preview.htm

When Dixon's watch was opened earlier this year, scientists found a broken hour hand - believed to be pointing somewhere between 6 and 9 -a minute hand pointing to 22 and a second hand pointing to 20.

Scientists now say the watch showed 8:23 more or less. The Confederate Submarine H L Hunley, with a spar mounted explosive device, torpedoed the USS Housatonic on February 17, 1864 at about 8:45 p.m. according to Northern witness accounts.

However, the Confederates used local apparent solar time and the Union Navy local mean (average) solar time probably based from Washington in setting watches and clocks on ships. Calculating the differences, Dixon's watch would have read 8:49 Union time.

This might indicate the Hunley partially flooded shortly after ramming a torpedo and spar with a powder charge into the hull of the Union blockade ship Housatonic or because the forward hatch was opened that water flooded in soaking Lt. Dixon. The now famous watch was found in Dixon's right hand pocket and could have easily been soaked from water flooding the forward hatch predicating a forced dive.

Hunley conservators with the help of Dan Nied from the National Watch & Clock Museum and Director of the NAWCC School of Horology in Columbia, Pa. were able to open and further excavate Lt. George E. Dixon's pocket watch which is now part of a special exhibit, Home Front to Battlefield: Keeping Time in the Civil War. Dixon's watch has been on display since June 28 and will be through June of 2004.

The Associated Press announced this week that "Warren Lasch, chairman of Friends of the Hunley, said scientists still have to examine the workings of the watch."

"An important clue we will soon discover is whether or not the watch was completely wound down," he said. "We still don't know if the time is a.m. or p.m. or even the same day."

We know that there was a long period of time, years before the crew space of the Confederate Sub Hunley finally filled with water.

"It is entirely possible that the Hunley's crew compartment remained watertight long after the oxygen the crew needed to survive was gone," he said. "If the watch was protected from the invasion of water, then it would have continued to tick until it eventually wound down."

Standard time

In 1800s, the time of the day was a local matter, and most cities and towns used some form of local mean solar time. The time of day comes from the location of the Sun in the local sky.

Sundials were used to measure time based on the actual position of the Sun in the local sky whether it be in the North or the South.. This time is called the apparent (or local) solar time. Noon is the precise moment when the Sun is on the meridian (which is an imaginary line passing from north to south through the zenith) and the sundial casts its shortest shadow. Before noon, when the Sun is on its way to meridian, the apparent solar time is ante meridian (a.m.) and past noon the apparent solar time is post meridian (p.m.).

This caused problems in setting start times and end times particularly in respect to railroad travel, shipping or record keeping. In 1883 a new system was adopted dividing the United States into four standard time zones. This became law with the Standard Time Act in 1918.

Friday August 8, 2003 was the third anniversary of the raising of the submarine from Charleston Harbor, South Carolina. The Hunley is at the Warren Lasch conservation lab at the old Charleston Navy Base after being re-discovered based on records provided by Dr. E. Lee Spence.

Photo shows Dixon's watch .

Contact: National Watch & Clock Museum Contact Name: Jim Bland, Director of Marketing Phone: (717) 684-8261 E-mail: jbland@nawcc.org More information can be found by visiting www.nawcc.org.

"The upper part of the cabin remained dry and the men suffocated on the bottom,
like other evidence seems to show."

That's my best guess too Mike. If the Hunley did, in fact, show a light, but
began taking on water shortly afterwards, like being rolled by the wake of a
passing ship, where they got the hatches closed, but enough water had
entered to create negative buoyancy, then the sub would have settled to the
bottom and the crew would be sitting in water.

One difficulty however... How much time passed after the attack and the
showing of the blue light? It certainly wasn't a minute or two. If the adjusted
time on the watch was the same time as the attack and they were on the
surface when they showed the light, then why doesn't the watch show a later
time? What are the odds that the watch kept running and simply ran down or
stopped at the "exact" time of the attack 12 or 24 hours later?

An assumption can be made that Dixon wound his watch just before he left
the docks on Sullivan Island. Is the watch spring in good enough condition to
show how wound down the watch was when it stopped?

Bruce

Seems like the watch could have gotten wet and stopped under other
circumstances other than the sub totally filing and the men drowning,
like when the blue signal was given. Possibly the sub partially filed
with water due to some damage, and the watch got wet, but the upper
part of the cabin remained dry and the men suffocated on the bottom,
like other evidence seems to show.

--Mike Mc

Because there was no "Blue light" found on board the Hunley, it can be assumed that the blue light seen by the Confederate troops at Battery Marshall were the ones used by the Northern Naval forces as a signal light. My consensus is that the crew of the Hunley was badly hurt by the intensity and close proximity to the explosion of the Housatonic. That water started flooding in the partially opened forward hatch, causing a loss of buoyancy and a rapid, unexpected rear dive to the bottom, landing on the rudder. Dixon's watch was soaked during the process as the crew sat stunned on the bottom until they eventually ran out of air. George

6) E-MAIL >

-----Original Message-----
From: Le Bateman [mailto:LeBateman@
Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 11:24 PM
To: mistergwp@thehunley.com

Dear Sir
I was at the meeting of one of the Confederate Heritage Groups I am a
member of and one person, who was to speak said that the crew of the
Housatonic is going to be interred along side the crew of the Hunley. As a
descendant of a number of Confederate Heroes, I hope this is not the case.
What have you heard about this. And who should I send a protest to. I do
not think the Stars and Stripes should fly their either, only those flags
which represent the CSA. I have sent a letter of Protest to Sen McConnell.
And others. I was civil mind you. The Stars and Stripes has its place, but
not at this ceremony. I am from a patriotic family. My grandfather on my
mother side served under General George S. Patton my father's father was a
Doughboy in W.W. I. My maternal grandfather's father was a Captain in the
Spanish American War. Capt Oates grandfather was a Confederate Officer. And
Lt.Oates's grandfather was a Patriot in the American Revolution. The Flag
of the United States does not belong at this ceremony. So please whoever had
that idea get them to resend it.
Sincerely
Jacob L. Bateman III
Montgomery, Alabama
**********

To: "George W Penington" <George@TheHunley.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2003 11:03 PM
Subject: FW: Friends of the Hunley
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeremy Edwards
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 3:47 PM

Forgive me for asking, but you may be able to help me. I'm trying to join
Friends of the Hunley but get no response when I complete the International
Membership option on their website, no reply to emails and no reply to phone
messages - the phone is always on voicemail.
Thought you might know something about them.
I am a member of the American Civil War Round Table in the UK and am coming
to Charleston with a friend for the funeral of the Hunley crew in April.
Best wishes,
Jeremy Edwards
--

Hello Jeremy, Thanks for writing and I apologize for the difficulty that you
are having. I hope writing me is only out of desperation. They (Friends of
the Hunley, Inc.) are tough to reach even for me. Try writing
admin@hunley.org They may be having trouble with their website and need to
know. If that doesn't work try reaching Senator Glen McConnell at:
mailto:contact@csagalleries.com You will find that Glenn is very nice, he
is also the big head of the Hunley Commission and would love to hear from
you.. If that doesn't work, write me back and I will give you his home
phone number....lol.   Good luck and stay in touch. There sure is alot of
amazing history that we share with you guys in England. Some of you blokes
were plenty cool about the blockade and sneaking around with the blockade
runners, etc..... send me some stuff for the newsletter from your
viewpoint... I am sure the readers will love it.   From an ole english
bloke,   George Wiltshire Penington, Esquire,....

***************

While reading the #38 Hunley newsletter I came across the paragraph copied below. As I read the words that were falling under my eyes an air of familiarity came over me. What I was reading was a paragraph from a 8000 word essay I had written in 2000 and have presented over 10 times to SCV and UDC groups in the Nashville, TN area. While I am flattered that I was quoted and I have no problem with the excerpt being used in the newsletter I am wondering how my words appeared in print here? I did not submit the excerpt.

Copied form Newsletter #38........

"On September 19, 1863 a letter arrived in the now half empty city of Charleston. The letter written by Horace Hunley and addressed to Gen. Beauregard proposed that the Hunley be returned to civilian hands. Hunley would re-crew her with men from Mobile, and quoting from the letter, at the earliest make an attempt to destroy a ship of the enemy fleet. Beauregard still grasping at any straw possible to break the iron hold on Charleston agreed to have Hunley retake control of the boat. But he did so with one stipulation. He wanted the Hunley to remain under the command of military personnel. A bargain was struck. The same men who had been banished to Mobile from the McClintock crew were returned to Charleston. This time Lt. George E. Dixon returned to command. " -Coates Essay (My name was misspelled.)

Terry COATS

Thanks again for writing and let me know what you want me to do. George W. Penington

George,
At age 53 I am forgetful, at age 73 I figure I will need a keeper to lead me around the house. <G>
I obviously did not remember corresponding with you in '00.

Thank you for your prompt response to my e-mail concerning the origin of my words being printed in the newsletter. My e-mail went through to you this time, I did e-mail the same question to you last month when the #38 newsletter came out.

Now about your concern that you had offended me or had printed my words out of turn. Nothing could have been farther from the fact! If you look at my e-mail of last night I stated that I was flattered that the snippet was used. And, I gave you permission to quote for the essay at any time.

My name was spelled COATES and not COATS. This happens 10 times a day so there is no problem and no correction is needed.

I went to the two links to my essay and it appears that you DO in fact have the entire works as it was written in 2000. The way it was linked is a bit messed up because this link http://www.thehunley.com/Coatsesssa2y.htm (the one with the 2 in its address) starts in the middle of the works, goes to the end and then starts over again with the first few words of the essay. Then the http://www.thehunley.com/Coatsesssay.htm link starts at the front and goes to the middle. I quickly scanned the two links and it does appear that you did get the entire works even though you did not think you did. I have included as an attachment the latest version of the presentation. It is basically the same as the one you got in 2000 with a small amount of "tweaking" and an epilog attached updating some of what has been found as the lab dug deeper into the sub.

I must compliment you on the Hunley site. It is a marvelous piece of work! I am sorry to say that I somehow had not subscribed to the site until 3 newsletters ago even though you and I had talked in 2000. For you to be webmastering this baby with your own money speaks volumes for you. It is one of the best sites I have ever seen!

Thank you for all you do on keeping the website running I am sure it is a labor of love to do so. Do NOT remove my essay from website as I said I am flattered that it is posted. As I indicated last night I have presented my presentation over 10 times to the SCV camps and the UDC chapters around Nashville and each time I present it I still get very emotional when I think of the sacrifice of all three crews who served the CSA in this mighty little vessel.

Terry Coats

*******In a message dated 8/7/03 7:29:28, george@thehunley.com writes:

Well you have knocked me out with you're great response. Thank you so much.. I too being 53 can get a little wacky but what a great era to be from and in.... hey it beats the alternative. It is sometimes hard to read between lines on the written word, so people get a little jumpy cause they can't see you smile. I will ponder the link stuff and see if I can figure out what is going on. As I work on computers for friends there are two things I can tell them...#1..The more I know the less I know...#2 They always work great if you don't plug them in. (paper weights) is probably good although I have one I use for an anchor.

As far as the other goes...where to stay and where to stand...still working on that..and will give you a heads up. I will find us a good place, somehow...on where to be during the activities. The other thing about a place to stay... I recommend Mt. Pleasant, but do it soon. http://www.charlestonreservation.com/mt_pleasant_-_daniel_island.shtml or http://www.123-accommodations.com/ I'm not married to either site but they seem to work... I prefer the first one cause they say they are from Charleston. I will work on where to stand or sit or whatever as soon as I can and will give you a heads up. Please stay in touch....and thanks for the use of the essay. Oh and if you get a scoop let me know and I will put it in the newsletter. Next issue if about the name of the eighth crewman on the last crew. Your friend, George W. Penington

George
I am back on the trail to track down the information we will need for the proposed sub project. This is a copy of the memo that I sent to Bosch. I did get a response back from Bosch Corp. that the message was received and will be forwarded to one of the public relations personnel.
[My name is George Fairbanks , Past Chairman of the American Welding Society Baton Rouge Louisiana Section.

Can you tell me if your company sponsored a student project for the Charleston South Carolina Museum for building a replica of the Civil War Confederate Submarine Pioneer? The plaque at the museum in Charleston makes reference to the Robert Bosch Corporation as the sponsors of the research. I am helping a group of AWS students at the Southeastern Louisiana University to research and build a replica for display at the Madisonville LA. Maritime Museum.

We are looking for any fabrication details that may help with our student project.

If you can assist me with find out which division of Bosch sponsored this project please contact me at one of the following.

George Fairbanks Phone 225-673-6600 (Office) Phone 225-647-4765 (Home) Email george@gixray.com (Office)

Email gdffss@eatel.net (Home) Thanks for your assistance.]

I am currently working out of town and burning the candle at both ends. I have talked with the students at SLU and they are putting the union officer sketch of the Pioneer on Auto-Cad using the rough dimensions that I got from my visit to the Charleston Museum .Looking forward to keeping you updated as we make progress. George

---- Original Message -----

From: pioneersub@la-junebug.com

To: George Fairbanks Work ; George Fairbanks Home ; Anthony Blakeney

Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 10:11 AM

Subject: pioneersub@la-junebug.com

This is the project email for the Pioneer Sub. I changed my mind about leaving it as a online account. We will all need to setup an account in our email program. This way the information will be downloaded to every ones computer. This way (once downloaded) it can be accessed w/o being online and I can recycle the server space. I have it set to leave the messages on the server for 15 days. Call me and will get you set up to send and receive from this new account. (225)978-2080 Markkevin

Here is some information that I have about the Hunley Replica located outside the Charleston Museum. I talked to one of the builders of the replica and he gave me a copy of a certificate of appreciation that he received for his help in building it. The certificate is from THE CITIZENS & SOUTHERN NATIONAL BANK OF SOUTH CAROLINA and is dated 1967. It appears that some local citizens decided to build a replica of the Hunley. Part of this group was E. Milby Burton, former director of the Charleston Museum and the C&S Bank contacted the Berkeley-Charleston-Dorchester Technical Education Center through the school director, Captain H. J. Hoffberg. Hoffberg assigned the design to the Mechanical Engineering Technology Department. The source of the design was the painting of the Hunley by Conrad Wise Chapman.

The Charleston Museum, Chapman Sketch, and Chapman print of the HUNLEY

The Floyd Houston model above was used to build the full scale model that is located outside the Charleston Museum.

Somewhere along the line, the Mechanical Engineering class of '66-'67 came up with a set of drawings detailing various assemblies and details to be used by the machine shops and welding shops located on campus. The project took the time it takes to make a baby and was started officially on October 1, 1966.

In June of 1967 a house moving company was hired to move the model to the then operational Charleston Navy Yard within site of where the actual Confederate Submarine H. L. Hunley is now housed. After some picture taking of the replica next to actual U.S. Navy submarines stationed in Charleston, she was then transported downtown to the C&S Bank basement on Church Street before being moved to the Museum on Meeting Street.

It may be that those original drawings can be found but the resemblance to the "Pioneers" would be limited. Let me know if you want me to keep tracking this information. George W. Penington

Next Issue will include the Building of a U.S.S. HOUSATONIC and a working model of the Confederate States Submarine H. L. Hunley with some of the design defects removed.

Photography:

Apparent Solar Time

Standard time